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The Funny Pages - Tickle Me Elbow - The Original


TriticusToxicum

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Darn210 Enthusiast
Can you see the potato mess?? 'Cause the rule is . . . If you can't see it, you don't have to clean it up. . . Just like when kids walk by doggie duty on the carpet.

doggy duty? . . . doggie doodie? . . . doggie doody? . . . dog sh!t.

If you can't see it, you don't have to clean it up . . . This is also why I never look under or behind furniture . . . and why I shower with my eyes closed.


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elye Community Regular

Janet, is that you on that lovely chestnut filly? (Just looks like a girl horse to me...) You look adorable and horsey at the same time. :D So it seems that now is the time to post any pics we might have of ourselves on a horse. Must go looking through Walmart frame department tonight....

:lol:

Darn210 Enthusiast

Yes that's me on Bev's horse. You don't need to have an actual picture of yourself on a horse . . . just use your face and Bev's horse. . . Bev's nice that way, she'll let anybody take a ride on her horse.

DingoGirl Enthusiast
OMG.....Yes, you most certainly SHOULD. Have a swig, then march over to the b!tch's cubie (woman who called you a stalker) and you'll easily be able to tell her that she has a face like a can of worms, or sumfin'.....

gawd :lol: :lol: you are MAD :lol:

Janet, is that you on that lovely chestnut filly? (Just looks like a girl horse to me...) You look adorable and horsey at the same time. :D So it seems that now is the time to post any pics we might have of ourselves on a horse. Must go looking through Walmart frame department tonight....

:lol: mad

sillies - - well - after a MAD day of shopping (I have NO event clothing - haven't been to EVENTS and SOIREES since I lived in Monterey).........Kissey has just called - is stuck in Visalia - won't be here until 7. So.....this dinner is only from 6 to 8. Got my wish, don't have to go. :lol:

alas, I am all coiffed, ready, dressed, looking quite cute........now what? :huh::lol:

shall I pull out the absinthe???????????????

< I can hear the screaming lot of you - - YES!!!!!! YES!!!!!! YES!!!!!!!!!!! and Tom's the loudest one> :lol: :lol:

okay and guess what else sillies..........

the orchard....... :( I didn't know until today - - they have yanked out THREE orchards on THREE CORNERS. :o ............ 'tis the most egregious, heinous, diabolical thing of all.....so I marched into the farm office..............the ladies in there claim not to know what's going on - but we all know - - MORE HOUSES........MORE STEPFORD...........

*sniff* I am grief-stricken - - will write letter to Editor quite soon about these BOOBS who keep building and take away all the grOeen...........

:angry:

elye Community Regular
Yes that's me on Bev's horse. You don't need to have an actual picture of yourself on a horse . . . just use your face and Bev's horse. . . Bev's nice that way, she'll let anybody take a ride on her horse.

Gahhhh! Another awesome pimped photo!...Didn't even notice....duuuuuuhhhh....

I could put my bottle of absinthe up Bev's horse's nose or sumfin'..... :lol:

jerseyangel Proficient
shall I pull out the absinthe???????????????

No--pull out the camera and have David take a picture of you all gussied up B)

elye Community Regular
No--pull out the camera and have David take a picture of you all gussied up B)

Yes!!! Jackie O!!!....... ;):D


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DingoGirl Enthusiast
No--pull out the camera and have David take a picture of you all gussied up B)

too late. I am wearing full makeup, w/ shimmer and everything, glossed, coiffed, and now I am in my sweats. :lol:

Just poured a wee nip of the phaerie. I shall call David and alert him to this.

;)

yes Em, by all means, put a bottle of your Absente on the horse's nose.......get The Ripper to help , kids these days, dagnabbit, they seem to know how to do everything.......

jerseyangel Proficient
Yes!!! Jackie O!!!....... ;):D

:lol: I'm sitting here in my hoodie and jeans--I need to live vicariously through Susie :lol:

~alex~ Explorer
No--pull out the camera and have David take a picture of you all gussied up B)

Yeah, another chameleon picture!

So guess what . . . my brother officially has Celiac disease. I informed him he should be tested after I was diagnosed but he didn't want to be . . . Brothers <_< . He did however later go gluten-lite upon my urging to see if it would help with controlling his bipolar II (mostly depression) symptoms. Well, he finally got the blood tests and they came back positive. He's not going to do the biopsy. I don't know what to think. I didn't want him to have celiac but I'm glad that he got diagnosed. He's a smart guy and a pretty good cook so I'm sure with my and my dad's help he'll be successful at going completely gluten-free.

It's weird, neither of my parents have/had celiac. My dad got tested after I was diagnosed and was negative and he has no discernable from gluten. I really don't think my mom had celiac; she was pretty much the picture of health. Her mom however died from intestinal cancer when I was very young and I'm pretty convinced that she did have celiac. Celiac disease is kind of frustrating; I wish more was know about it's inheritance and non-genetic factors that might contribute to its onset. Because obviously at least one of my parents (maybe both) were genetically susceptible to the disease but didn't get it.

On a lighter note: check out these cute pictures and story about a Open Original Shared Link

elye Community Regular
:lol: I'm sitting here in my hoodie and jeans--I need to live vicariously through Susie :lol:

Tell me about it.... I'm in my flannel jammies....sigh....... <_<:rolleyes:

jerseyangel Proficient
Open Original Shared Link

So cute :D

Alex, that's really something about your brother being diagnosed. I certainly understand your mixed feelings, but now that he knows he can start healing. We hate for our loved ones to be sick, but it's so much worse when they're sick and don't know the root cause.

I would give anything for my sister to be tested.

elye Community Regular
Alex, that's really something about your brother being diagnosed.

I would give anything for my sister to be tested.

And I wish my dad would get an "official" diagnosis, as well.....

Speaking of dad, he's cracking up the nurses, doing impersonations, telling stories to whomever will listen. He does quite well in hospitals, as he's got an ever-changing audience in place. :rolleyes::D

Mtndog Collaborator

OMG- The avatar MADNESS!!!!!!!!!!! I kept thinking I posted while asleep cause I'm ALL over this thread! :P

Um........you can do this when married. Trust me. :lol:

You can do anything when you're married :lol: :lol:

Yes.......take a close look at that self-portrait avatar I've got up here right now. Those are men's boot-cut jeans......was no one looking? :o:lol:

You look GORGEOUS!

<---- new av. edit: found a better av picture. I did ride a horse before (although I don't really remember this experience). I don't have to be so jealous of Bev and her horse now. I look like boy in this picture! :ph34r:

Cutest thing ever! See, you ARE a New England prepster!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Okay - - here's something mildly phunny.

you know before - only girls spent the night at my house, Gail and Jenn and out-of-town friends, and so I figured my neighbors thought I was gay. <giggly face>

Now - - Kissey arrives in various vehicles. The Jetta, the motorcycle, Ford Expedition from work, and now today, a rental car (Phord Phocus) as Jetta is in the shop. So now - my neighbors probably just think I'm a ho'. :lol:

Oh NOOOO- I bet they think you're a Bisexual ho!

OMG - just now - I saw a new thread entitled "diaper creams" but - I misread it to say "diaper DREAMS" and fleetingly wondered if that was a new kind of cookie er sumfin :lol: :lol:

OMG- read a sign at the store the other day as "Raffle for Rabies" (it said babies but WTH are they doing raffling off babies? :huh::o)

)

And I saw gas is now 3.29....do they think I have money falling out my bum???

My mom always said it didn't grow on trees so I thought it did!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i'll drink to that :):)

OMG- once I'm done with abx, I'll drink to ANYTHING!!! We'll need a video conference cocktail party!

Yes that's me on Bev's horse. You don't need to have an actual picture of yourself on a horse . . . just use your face and Bev's horse. . . Bev's nice that way, she'll let anybody take a ride on her horse.

Nuh-uh- she STOLE him!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Gahhhh! Another awesome pimped photo!...Didn't even notice....duuuuuuhhhh....

I could put my bottle of absinthe up Bev's horse's nose or sumfin'..... :lol:

Spoons on shrooms absinthe? OMG- he IS the Green faerie!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Speaking of the green faerie, do you all know about the Green Goddess? I guess if you smoke some type of salvia (it looks like lavender) you can meet the goddess B) And to think I was growing hallucinogenics on my deck last summer :ph34r: :ph34r:

jerseyangel Proficient
Speaking of dad, he's cracking up the nurses, doing impersonations, telling stories to whomever will listen. He does quite well in hospitals, as he's got an ever-changing audience in place. :rolleyes::D

Sounds like he's in good spirits--that's great :D I'll bet he's the nurses' favorite patient.

DingoGirl Enthusiast
Yes!!! Jackie O!!!....... ;):D

dear gawd......don't besmirch her name so.......did SHE hang around in baggy sweats, drinking absinthe, and....live in her Park Avenue apartment in some constant level of slattern squalor? :lol: I THOUGHT not!!!!!!!!!!!

:lol: I'm sitting here in my hoodie and jeans--I need to live vicariously through Susie :lol:

:lol: see above quote.......

OMG - am on second glass of The Phaerie................and soooooooooooo giggly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

everything is phunny.........Kissey is going to find me......very, um, well, way more silly than usual and very entertaining, of this I am confident :lol: <he has been warned>

ALEX!!!!!!!!!!!! must read your stuff again tomorrow but - a diagnosis for your bro??? this is EXCELLENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! his BRAIN will change!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :)

p.s. Bev is a lunatic - - and I'm not sure why - - she just is - - she is phunnyyyyyyyyyy :lol:

and.......who now has a STAR above her head in av? can't remember :lol:

<I don't think I should be out in public tonight> :lol:

jerseyangel Proficient

Susie's tipsy :D

I, on the other hand, am watching Tori Spelling <_< on Larry King...... :ph34r:

tom Contributor

Gah!!! Not knowing today would SUCK I'd made tentative (to me) plans w/ Shelly yesterday to go see a band tonight. I dunno now.

Experimenting a bit w/ The Phaerie & prob shouldn't drive (tho if I hadn't, would feel like cancelling anyway), but I've got 3+ hrs until possible meetup so who knows. .

Yes that's me on Bev's horse. You don't need to have an actual picture of yourself on a horse . . . just use your face and Bev's horse. . .

:lol: :lol:

I also didn't notice!!! Well done!! :lol:

alas, I am all coiffed, ready, dressed, looking quite cute........now what? :huh::lol:

shall I pull out the absinthe???????????????

I can hear the screaming lot of you - - YES!!!!!! YES!!!!!! YES!!!!!!!!!!! and Tom's the loudest one> :lol: :lol:

:lol: Tom? Not Ptaum???

I've become somewhat amused by the Ptaum bit.

<psssssst don't stop at one . ....2 or 3 (or 4) phaeries'll do ya>

okay and guess what else sillies..........

the orchard....... :( I didn't know until today - - they have yanked out THREE orchards on THREE CORNERS. :o

Oh damn ... ..

But I thought this started last Fall.

DingoGirl Enthusiast
Susie's tipsy :D

I, on the other hand, am watching Tori Spelling <_< on Larry King...... :ph34r:

OMG - QUITE riveting - her face - - OMG - - I think she looks like - can I say it? - a smashed Barbie doll head - - you know when you'd take the Barbie's head and squish it, like it was pressed in an elevator? Well......she has surgerized herself so.............not good....... :ph34r:

:lol: :lol: :lol:

now........why didn't The Phaerie affect me this way in Santa Cruz mountains? I am feeling QUITE GIDDY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! but - not hallucinating or anything........not having "enlightenment" - - - :lol:

JUST EXTRA SILLY

:lol: :lol: :lol:

tom Contributor

I swear, this nearly bare-limbed tree across the street is starting to resemble some fauve painting I barely recall . . .. .should I be scared by this?

Darn210 Enthusiast

Was at Wal-Mart today . . . thought I would browse through the picture frame section . . . Look what I found!!!!

(Not my best work . . . $%@!#@*#$ wireless mouse!)

DingoGirl Enthusiast
Oh damn ... ..

But I thought this started last Fall.

no - a couple of months ago - all the eucalyptus went........ and now this :angry:

<am feeling too psilly to be mad currently :lol: >

I swear, this nearly bare-limbed tree across the street is starting to resemble some fauve painting I barely recall . . .. .should I be scared by this?

:lol: :lol: :lol:

HE SAID FAUVE!!!!!!!!!! Fauve is one of my favorite words and DEFINITELY my favorite period of art.

I have done some "neo fauve" paintings. Must remember to use more absinthe, next time. :lol: They are.....quite coloUrful, still.

Was at Wal-Mart today . . . thought I would browse through the picture frame section . . . Look what I found!!!!

(Not my best work . . . $%@!#@*#$ wireless mouse!)

dear gawd :lol:

do they sell absinthe at Walmart? will stock up - economy size

tom Contributor
- - you know when you'd take the Barbie's head and squish it, like it was pressed in an elevator?

Of course!!!! Everyone's quite familiar w/ lift-pressed children's figurines!!!

Orrrrrrrr not . .. .wait . . . .is this like playing Snidely Whiplash w/ a GI Joe on the train tracks?

Janet!! Love the latest av!! (Wireless meeses added difficulty be damned!!) :lol:

tom Contributor

Not sure why <absinthe> but I totally missed some posts. absinthe As I was replying, a mini-flurry of however many posts got in before mine posted, and I didn't know they existed at all until now, sooooo many hrs post-post.

:wackl: to be sure.

OMG - am on second glass of The Phaerie................and soooooooooooo giggly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

heheheehehee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oooooooooo 3700 posts!! Any phluids?

.......who now has a STAR above her head in av? can't remember :lol:

WTH??

So guess what . . . my brother officially has Celiac disease. . . .

He did however later go gluten-lite upon my urging to see if it would help with controlling his bipolar II (mostly depression) symptoms... ... I don't know what to think. I didn't want him to have celiac but I'm glad that he got diagnosed.

ALEX!!!!! Screw the mixed emotions!! I, too, see it as fantastic!

Or, in other words . ..

a diagnosis for your bro??? this is EXCELLENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! his BRAIN will change!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :)

2 for 2 here tellin' it like it is.

now........why didn't The Phaerie affect me this way in Santa Cruz mountains?

Proximity to The Mystery Spot is my first guess.

***more catch-up***

. .. . and you'll easily be able to tell her that she has a face like a can of worms, or sumfin'.....

:lol: "face like a can of WORMS"!!!!

.. .'tis the most egregious, heinous, diabolical thing of all.....so I marched into the farm office..............the ladies in there claim not to know what's going on -

If only certain eye-elyeeye-catching earrings had been worn to distract them offpiste the party line.

Speaking of dad, he's cracking up the nurses, doing impersonations, telling stories to whomever will listen. He does quite well in hospitals, as he's got an ever-changing audience in place. :rolleyes::D

:)

. . I guess if you smoke some type of salvia (it looks like lavender) you can meet the goddess B) And to think I was growing hallucinogenics on my deck last summer :ph34r: :ph34r:

I saw THREE articles about this stuff yesterday! Never heard of it before .. . . .why now!!?? (Oh .. . .cuz states are making it illegal now)

Weird.

Ridgewalker Contributor
dear gawd......don't besmirch her name so.......did SHE hang around in baggy sweats, drinking absinthe, and....live in her Park Avenue apartment in some constant level of slattern squalor? :lol: I THOUGHT not!!!!!!!!!!!

You said besmirch! I looooove that word.

Re: the orchard..... WHAT is their tree-killing-problem!? You should file a ground breaking lawsuit because they are sucking all the air and beauty-calm-producing-life out of your environment.

Alex... I am so happy that your brother got a diagnosis! Of course we don't wish this disease on anyone, but thank goodness now he knows and is going gluten-free. I wish my brother would consider getting tested or try going gluten-free. He has chronic, severe heartburn. Heartburn is one of my glutening symptoms. My grandfather suffered chronic severe heartburn, and died of esophageal cancer. I personally believe that he was an undiagnosed Celiac. Several of my other relatives on that side have symptoms as well, but they all ignore it. :(

It's 4:20 am here. I woke up coughing my head off, and I'm waiting for the Nyquil to kick in. (And eating strawberry ice cream. Hmmm, I need to order some gluten-free cones... for the kids of course ;) ) The steroids have helped my throat so much though- it's a major relief. My throat had gotten so swelled and inflamed that I was beginning to gag on my own spit- I couldn't swallow much at all. :blink:

But the weird thing is, I've been having strange hot flashes all night. Not really sweating hot, but my face and chest becomes really hot and BRIGHT red- like I've been sunburned or something. If I put my hand up by my face, I can feel the heat coming off. Then after awhile it goes away.... then comes back a little while later. Bizarre... I'm on a ton of meds right now, but I think this is from the steroids...?

Lucas's allergies are acting up. The tree pollen is getting pretty high here now. Soon, my Bradford Pear trees are going to beautiful white... I'll have to try to get a pic of the boys in front of them for my av.

And my best friends' mom called me yesterday- her chickens are going into laying overdrive, so I can start buying eggs. YAY! Brian's gonna have to get over his chicken butt cootie phobia. :lol:

I am so glad you guys are here to talk to at 4:30 am. Well.... technically nobody's here, but the board is always here. :P Tom was here a little while ago. I'm starting to ramble, I guess my Nyquil is working. Back off to bed. YAY for Saturday morning- Daddy's here to get up with the kids! :lol:

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    • cristiana
      Hi @Scatterbrain Thank you for your reply.   Some of these things could be weaknesses, also triggered by stress, which perhaps have come about as the result of long-term deficiencies which can take a long time to correct.   Some could be completely unrelated. If it is of help, I'll tell you some of the things that started in the first year or two, following my diagnosis - I pinned everything on coeliac disease, but it turns out I wasn't always right!  Dizziness, lightheaded - I was eventually diagnosed with cervical dizziness (worth googling, could be your issue too, also if you have neck pain?)  A few months after diagnosis I put my neck out slightly carrying my seven-year-old above my head, and never assigned any relevance to it as the pain at the time was severe but so short-lived that I'd forgotten the connection. Jaw pain - stress. Tinnitus - I think stress, but perhaps exacerbated by iron/vitamin deficiencies. Painful ribs and sacroiliac joints - no idea, bloating made the pain worse. It got really bad but then got better. Irregular heart rate - could be a coincidence but my sister (not a coeliac) and I both developed this temporarily after our second Astra Zeneca covid jabs.   Subsequent Pfizer jabs didn't affect us. Brain fog - a big thing for people with certain autoimmune issues but in my case I think possibly worse when my iron or B12 are low, but I have no proof of this. Insomnia - stress, menopause. So basically, it isn't always gluten.  It might be worth having your vitamins and mineral levels checked, and if you have deficiencies speak to your Dr about how better to address them?    
    • knitty kitty
      @NanceK, I do have Hypersensitivity Type Four reaction to Sulfa drugs, a sulfa allergy.  Benfotiamine and other forms of Thiamine do not bother me at all.  There's sulfur in all kinds of Thiamine, yet our bodies must have it as an essential nutrient to make life sustaining enzymes.  The sulfur in thiamine is in a ring which does not trigger sulfa allergy like sulfites in a chain found in pharmaceuticals.  Doctors are not given sufficient education in nutrition (nor chemistry in this case).  I studied Nutrition before earning a degree in Microbiology.  I wanted to know what vitamins were doing inside the body.   Thiamine is safe and nontoxic even in high doses.   Not feeling well after starting Benfotiamine is normal.  It's called the "thiamine paradox" and is equivalent to an engine backfiring if it's not been cranked up for a while.  Mine went away in about three days.  I took a B Complex, magnesium and added molybdenum for a few weeks. It's important to add a B Complex with all eight essential B vitamins. Supplementing just one B vitamin can cause lows in some of the others and result in feeling worse, too.  Celiac Disease causes malabsorption of all the B vitamins, not just thiamine.  You need all eight.  Thiamine forms including Benfotiamine interact with each of the other B vitamins in some way.  It's important to add a magnesium glycinate or chelate supplement as well.  Forms of Thiamine including Benfotiamine need magnesium to make those life sustaining enzymes.  (Don't use magnesium oxide.  It's not absorbed well.  It pulls water into the intestines and is used to relieve constipation.)   Molybdenum is a trace mineral that helps the body utilize forms of Thiamine.   Molybdenum supplements are available over the counter.  It's not unusual to be low in molybdenum if low in thiamine.   I do hope you will add the necessary supplements and try Benfotiamine again. Science-y Explanation of Thiamine Paradox: https://hormonesmatter.com/paradoxical-reactions-with-ttfd-the-glutathione-connection/#google_vignette
    • Wheatwacked
      Your goal is not to be a good puppet, there is no gain in that. You might want to restart the ones that helped.  It sounds more like you are suffering from malnutrition.  Gluten free foods are not fortified with things like Thiamine (B1), vitamin D, Iodine, B1,2,3,5,6 and 12 as non-gluten free products are required to be. There is a Catch-22 here.  Malnutrition can cause SIBO, and SIBO can worsen malnutrition. Another possibility is side effects from any medication that are taking.  I was on Metformin 3 months before it turned me into a zombi.  I had crippling side effects from most of the BP meds tried on me, and Losartan has many of the side effects on me from my pre gluten free days. Because you have been gluten free, you can test and talk until you are blue in the face but all of your tests will be negative.  Without gluten, you will not create the antigen against gluten, no antigens to gluten, so no small intestine damage from the antigens.  You will need to do a gluten challange to test positive if you need an official diagnosis, and even then, no guaranty: 10 g of gluten per day for 6 weeks! Then a full panel of Celiac tests and biopsy. At a minimum consider vitamin D, Liquid Iodine (unless you have dermatitis herpetiformis and iodine exasperates the rash), and Liquid Geritol. Push for vitamin D testing and a consult with a nutritionist experienced with Celiack Disease.  Most blood tests don't indicate nutritional deficiencies.  Your thyroid tests can be perfect, yet not indicate iodine deficiency for example.  Thiamine   test fine, but not pick up on beriberi.  Vegans are often B12 deficient because meat, fish, poultry, eggs, and dairy are the primary souces of B12. Here is what I take daily.  10,000 IU vitamin D3 750 mg g a b a [   ] 200 mg CoQ10 [   ] 100 mg DHEA [   ] 250 mg thiamine B1 [   ] 100 mg of B2 [   ] 500 mg B5 pantothenic acid [   ] 100 mg B6 [   ] 1000 micrograms B12 n [   ] 500 mg vitamin c [   ] 500 mg taurine [   ] 200 mg selenium   
    • NanceK
      Hi…Just a note that if you have an allergy to sulfa it’s best not to take Benfotiamine. I bought a bottle and tried one without looking into it first and didn’t feel well.  I checked with my pharmacist and he said not to take it with a known sulfa allergy. I was really bummed because I thought it would help my energy level, but I was thankful I was given this info before taking more of it. 
    • Wheatwacked
      Hello @Scatterbrain, Are you getting enough vitamins and minerals.  Gluten free food is not fortified so you may be starting to run low on B vitamins and vitamin D.   By the way you should get your mom checked for celiac disease.  You got it from your mom or dad.  Some studies show that following a gluten-free diet can stabilize or improve symptoms of dementia.  I know that for the 63 years I was eating gluten I got dumber and dumber until I started GFD and vitamin replenishment and it began to reverse.  Thiamine can get used up in a week or two.  Symptoms can come and go with daily diet.  Symptoms of beriberi due to Thiamine deficiency.   Difficulty walking. Loss of feeling (sensation) in hands and feet. Loss of muscle function or paralysis of the lower legs. Mental confusion. Pain. Speech difficulties. Strange eye movements (nystagmus) Tingling. Any change in medications? Last March I had corotid artery surgery (90 % blockage), and I started taking Losartan for blood pressure, added to the Clonidine I was taking already.  I was not recovering well and many of my pre gluten free symptoms were back  I was getting worse.  At first I thought it was caused a reaction to the anesthesia from the surgery, but that should have improved after two weeks.  Doctor thought I was just being a wimp. After three months I talked to my doctor about a break from the Losartan to see if it was causing it. It had not made any difference in my bp.  Except for clonindine, all of the previous bp meds tried had not worked to lower bp and had crippling side effects. One, I could not stand up straight; one wobbly knees, another spayed feet.  Inguinal hernia from the Lisinopril cough.  Had I contiued on those, I was destined for a wheelchair or walker. She said the symptoms were not from Losartan so I continued taking it.  Two weeks later I did not have the strength in hips and thighs to get up from sitting on the floor (Help, I can't get up😨).  I stopped AMA (not recommended).  Without the Losartan, a) bp did not change, after the 72 hour withdrawal from Losartanon, on clonidine only and b) symptoms started going away.  Improvement started in 72 hours.  After six weeks they were gone and I am getting better.  
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