Ate gluten and didn't get sick?

[Josh Corney]

So some family brought over some Greek pastries that I never usually see and I couldn't resist myself and ate like four or five. I fully expected to get very sick as I have in the past for at least a week, but nothing! I felt some slight joint pain that night but that was it. Nothing else.

Meanwhile a few weeks later and I'm having dinner my sister made and I get very sick for the next few days from what must have been a sauce. There should have been less gluten in that than the pastries so I don't understand how that makes me sick but the pastries don't.

[trents]

Maybe something else in the sauce besides gluten made you sick. Have you been confirmed to have Celiac disease? Celiac disease wonks the immune system because of the "leaky gut" that accrues from damage to the small bowel mucosa. This allows larger than normal protein fragments from various foods to get into the blood stream and create abnormal immune reactions to things that are not normally allergenic.

So ask your sister what was in the sauce.

There is also evidence that fermented wheat products (like sourdough) are much better tolerated by Celiacs. Notice I did not say they are completely safe for Celiacs to eat.

[Josh Corney]

I have been diagnosed with it since I was 15 by my doctor. Had a blood test and gastroscopy to confirm it. I checked one sauce that was gluten free and verified with the Celiac society. The other sauce mentioned no wheat.

This still doesn't explain the pastries though and it's not the first time either. I sometimes don't get sick but only from Greek pastries. I suspect either my gut has healed enough to pass through gluten at least once or some process in these pastries (using filo pastry) destroys the gluten.

or they are gluten free and no one knew.

[knitty kitty]

Josh,

What was in the sauce that did cause you to get ill?

Was it a cream sauce or a sauce that contained yogurt or sour cream?  Dairy can cause problems if you're lactose intolerant or have a casein allergy.  Lactose intolerance and casein allergy can happen outside of a Celiac reaction.

Did it contain eggs?  Egg intolerance or allergy can happen outside of a Celiac reaction.

Or was it a tomato based sauce?  Nightshades like tomatoes and potatoes can contribute to leaky gut syndrome, as trents said.

Was it a homemade sauce or a sauce from a restaurant or premade processed food?  Made from scratch homemade and restaurant foods might be subject to improper storage and become spoiled or harbor bacteria.  Processed foods may contain ingredients that are supposed to enhance texture or flavor, but these ingredients can be inflammatory.

Filo pastry does not go through the kneading process used to make loaves of bread.  Kneading encourages long stretchy strings and webs of gluten molecules to develop.  These long stretchy gluten webs trap gas bubbles from fermenting yeast all cause the bread dough to rise.  It's these big  long interconnected gluten molecules that can easily trigger and wreak havoc on a Celiac's immune system.  

Filo pastry, though it contains wheat, may be able to sneak under the radar and not trigger as big a reaction as breads because it doesn't have the big strung together gluten molecules as produced in breads.  

Still, best to avoid wheat in either form.

Hope this helps!

 

 

 

[Scott Adams]

If you have celiac disease you shouldn’t be eating any wheat at all because it will cause damage. In those who have healed their gut it may take weeks or months to re-injure their gut, but it will happen. Keep in mind that most celiacs don’t have symptoms yet the damage is still being done, and the risks of associated autoimmune disorders is the same. 

[Josh Corney]

15 hours ago, knitty kitty said:

Josh,

What was in the sauce that did cause you to get ill?

I suspect fish sauce from a supermarket but it made no mention of wheat. All the foods you mentioned I have been eating for years without issue.

15 hours ago, knitty kitty said:

Filo pastry does not go through the kneading process used to make loaves of bread.  Kneading encourages long stretchy strings and webs of gluten molecules to develop.  These long stretchy gluten webs trap gas bubbles from fermenting yeast all cause the bread dough to rise.  It's these big  long interconnected gluten molecules that can easily trigger and wreak havoc on a Celiac's immune system.  

Filo pastry, though it contains wheat, may be able to sneak under the radar and not trigger as big a reaction as breads because it doesn't have the big strung together gluten molecules as produced in breads.  

Still, best to avoid wheat in either form.

Hope this helps!

This is very, very interesting. Could filo pastry be perhaps safe to eat? I've been missing proper spanikopita for years. 

[DJFL77I]

have some self control

there's plenty of good tasting gluten free food

I'd eat tree bark for the rest of my life if it cured me..

[knitty kitty]

8 hours ago, Josh Corney said:

I suspect fish sauce from a supermarket but it made no mention of wheat. All the foods you mentioned I have been eating for years without issue.

This is very, very interesting. Could filo pastry be perhaps safe to eat? I've been missing proper spanikopita for years. 

No!  Wheat (rye and barley) in any form is still damaging!  As you said...

"I felt some slight joint pain that night but that was it."

Your immune system DID recognize the wheat and was just beginning to get revved up.  

Your immune system down regulates when your body is not being constantly assaulted by gluten, but it still remembers, and the immune system may be slow to start, but the alarm will go out and all the inflammation and damage will return.   

Don't be tempted!  Gluten is still "poisonous" to the health of Celiacs.  

Remember what Scott Adams has said!

21 hours ago, Scott Adams said:

If you have celiac disease you shouldn’t be eating any wheat at all because it will cause damage. In those who have healed their gut it may take weeks or months to re-injure their gut, but it will happen. Keep in mind that most celiacs don’t have symptoms yet the damage is still being done, and the risks of associated autoimmune disorders is the same. 

And ditch the fish sauce! It's high histamine which is inflammatory.  

Knitty Kitty

[trents]

With Celiac Disease, you are either all in to eliminating gluten in your diet or you aren't in at all. Admittedly, this can be difficult for people to accept who are part of certain food cultures or who have a dysfunctional relationship with food. But your health is at stake here.

Edited September 1, 2020 by trents

[Scott Adams]

Over the 25 years I've run this site I've seen many claims made here, in other sites, and in books, etc., that celiac disease can be "cured", but I've not seen any scientific evidence to support this claim.

After my gut healed I've been accidentally glutened from time to time, and I don't have a big reaction to it, however, this doesn't mean that the autoimmune chain reaction isn't kicking in again. I've seen many people leave the forum and go back to eating gluten again, only to get sick again and end up back here. This happens often in those who don't have an official diagnosis, which is my #1 reason for recommending an official diagnosis--for some people it helps keep them honest, and not cheat on their gluten-free diets.

[trents]

I've said that at times too on this forum, Scott. You hit the nail on the head. Until they have an official diagnosis with laboratory proof, many will find a way to not take their need to eat gluten-free seriously.

[Scott Adams]

I agree, it is just sad that this dooms many, including myself, to higher costs for private life and health insurance, and makes them harder for people to get...which is the main reason why I say that an official diagnosis may not be the best option for everyone, especially for those who have no issues staying on the gluten-free diet.

Now that I'm older there are times that I wish I didn't have the official diagnosis...usually when I'm paying my monthly health insurance premium!! 🙂  (it's now officially 2.5 times higher than my home mortgage!!).

[trents]

Hmm! Never thought about having celiac disease raising the cost of health insurance. I'm not sure I've seen that here in Washington.

[cyclinglady]

Well, since the National Healthcare Act went into effect, you do not have to pay extra for pre-existing conditions like celiac disease anymore.  But who knows if that will be taken away?  Before that went into effect, then yes, you were penalized by paying higher premiums or you were flat out denied, like me.  I had one year that I went without seeing a doctor (still had coverage under Cal COBRA) before I could apply to other health insurance because I was denied on the first application I submitted because I had a Hashimoto’s diagnosis — I kid you not).  They accepted my overweight, high cholesterol, hubby though!
 

Our premiums are huge too.  About $23,000 a year for 3 people (we have top coverage because we know statistically we will get ill) though we do get some tax credit since we are a small company (just like big companies probably get too by offering health insurance to their employees).  It is very high because we are old.  Just being old costs a fortune.  Our daughter has a much cheaper policy.  Without her our cost would be about $21,000.  True, it is our largest household expense.   I could have bought a new car every year for the last 15 years!  Did it go down with the AHC?  No.  We now pay for things like adult kids to stay on their parents policies until they are 26,  others with pre-existing conditions and we have to pay for maternity even though we are old!  But it is worth it.  I do not want to be without insurance!  
 

Life insurance?  That could be a problem with a diagnosis.  😡
 

and to Josh...cheating will eventually catch up to you.  Celiac disease might go into remission on a gluten free diet, but it never goes away.  You just will reactivate it.  A lot of my damage was done silently.  Nothing worse that spontaneous fractures.  

Edited September 1, 2020 by cyclinglady

[Josh Corney]

14 hours ago, knitty kitty said:

And ditch the fish sauce! It's high histamine which is inflammatory.  

Knitty Kitty

Whats this about inflammation? Fish Sauce never really caused me trouble in the past. Regardless I will be sticking to a gluten free diet as I normally do and I guess its back to home made spanikopita for me.

Also to those above talking about health care I'm from Australia so I'm not so worried about increased expenses. 

[trents]

As you normally do? I would hope you kick it up a notch as from you own admission you seem to be cheating on the diet now and then. Is that what you mean by normal?

[Josh Corney]

Once a year or less at certain family gatherings. But from now one i'll be making it myself. There is occasional contamination that's not intentional either.

[trents]

2 minutes ago, Josh Corney said:

Once a year or less at certain family gatherings. But from now one i'll be making it myself. There is occasional contamination that's not intentional either.

Thanks for the clarification. Do you have a good gluten-free recipe for spanikopita? It can take weeks to heal from a gluten setback.

Edited September 2, 2020 by trents

[Josh Corney]

I just used whatever I found on the net and replaced it with gluten-free ingredients. 

[DJFL77I]

Here I am doing everything possible to get better and heal and this dumb azz is willingly eating gluten..

Keep eating it.. see what happens to you

[Josh Corney]

Relax mate. I've been on this diet for nearly 10 years. We all have our slip ups.

[Scott Adams]

BTW, to get more to the point of your original post, certain varieties of wheat do contain less gluten, and are less toxic to celiacs (which isn't to say that they are not toxic celiacs, just less so).

 Additionally, if they used low gluten varieties AND fermented them into a sourdough, most of the gluten could be eliminated (there are several teams trying to genetically alter wheat to make it safe for celiacs, and research is also being done on sourdough fermentation, as well as treating wheat dough with AN-PEP enzymes--this is research and I don't recommend trying this at home!):

  

 

[Scott Adams]

BTW, regarding my health insurance going up in the USA. I am not 100% sure since the ADA (Obamacare) has been in place if they are able to raise my rates due to me having celiac disease, but I suspect that they can. I could be wrong here, but the ADA simply says that they can't deny me coverage for a pre-existing condition, but I do not believe that there is anything in the ADA that says that they can't charge me higher rates because of a pre-existing condition. For example, if you have terminal cancer and want insurance coverage you are put into a high risk pool where you have to pay more to get a policy, but the policy can't be denied on your condition.

I probably need to do an article on this topic, but here is one I just did for health care in Canada, which does charge more and deny coverage if you have celiac disease:

 

[trents]

Yes, doing an article for USAers about the impact on their health insurance rates would be a great idea.

[cyclinglady]

But that article is about disability insurance which is different from health insurance.  We have short term disability insurance because we are self-employed.  I have not looked to see if they cover autoimmune disease, but I doubt it.  Most companies offer some disability insurance for their employees.  It is typically meant for short term disability (breaking legs in an auto accident).    Usually, you can add extra disability insurance from your employer on top of what they offer.  This offsets additional expenses and helps make up lost salary.   My girlfriend had this when she got her cancer diagnosis.   Long term disability is covered by SSI (the Federal gov).   We also have life insurance.  Those policies were obtained before my celiac disease diagnosis.
 

I think it is difficult for anyone to get on SSI and I bet celiac disease is not a qualifier unless you have a type 2 refractory celiac disease.  But I know nothing about SSI and how to get benefits.  
 

 Under the ADA you no longer have have to disclose any healthcare issues when applying for health insurance.  In California, you can apply for health insurance (the marketplace) under Covered California.  You can choose your insurance plans and coverage amount (HMO, deductibles, etc).  I am not sure how the insurance exchange is handled in each state, but California has one of the best in the country because we have a huge population.  You do pay a lot more the older you are.  There are no risk pools anymore under the ADA.  
 

Scott, do you have a grandfathered  health insurance plan?  A grandfathered plan does not fall under the ADA/Covered California and you may receive no protection for rate increases from illnesses, etc.   Our insurance company left the state in 2014, we obtained a new policy through Covered California so that we had state and federal protections.  A good choice.  Now with the pandemic, if our income drastically falls, we can qualify for assistance.  A nice feature when many are losing healthcare insurance through their employers.  

Edited September 3, 2020 by cyclinglady